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Some really good discussion going on here with this topic.

I was spanked as a kid. Not very often, but it happened. Do I resent the parental units? HELL NO.

I KNEW that my parents loved me more than anything. They taught me what was acceptable and what was not. If I did the unacceptable, I would be punished. Usually it was taking away something that meant a lot to me. Like my music, they would take my radio and my albums away from me. My books, so I couldn't read. Then they would make me do a more chores; above and beyond what I already had to do. They would talk to me about what I had done. Why was it wrong? Why did I do it. They made me think about it. They made me realize that there are consequences for my actions. They taught me to be responsible for myself and what I do.

That right there, in my opinion, is what I see today as being the problem with a lot of kids these days. The parents ( and I am not saying any of you do it, so take it easy!) do NOT take the time. They hit, they turn a blind eye....whatever.

I run into SO many kids that just have NO respect for anything. It is scary. For those of you who DO take the time, more power to you.

Will I spank my kids? Yes. I won't beat them. I won't drag them by the arm down the grocery aisle because they aren't moving fast enough ( Damn I HATE that...)But I WILL talk to my kids. I WILL teach them what is acceptable and what isn't, and let them know that there are boundaries. Cross those lines and you will be punished. No 'timeouts' in my house. My sister does that with her two girls and they run all over her. It is a joke to them.

Another thing too, is that what works for one kid, won't work for another. Time Out for some kids works great. Spanking can obviously have its negative effects. All I know is that when I got spanked, I knew it was coming. I didn't just get whacked. I got the 'talk' first, then the spanking. I think I got spanked maybe 5 or 6 times at the most, that I can remember anyway. Then came the next phase of punishment...Standing in the corner. THAT worked. I HATED that. I had to stand rigidly straight. No bent knees. No slouching or leaning against the wall, no crying. It worked for sure. The more they knew I hated it, the more it was used as punishment. (not that I was that bad of a child!!)

As I got older, I got the 'We are so disappointed in you' speeches. I'd rather have been spanked. Seriously. I love my parents and have the utmost respect for them. So when I did something that warranted that speech from them, it was like taking my heart out of my chest, dropping it on the floor and stomping on it.

I was no angel as a teen. But I remember many many times being faced with whether or not to do something that I knew was wrong, and thinking.."What if they find out?" That was enough for me. It wasn't worth it.

Now that I have written a novel..carry on.
=)

¤ ¤ credit: jen | 07.01.02 at 09:35 AM | link--this ¤ ¤

I'm pretty sure my dread at the prospect of having children stems from a fear that they'd turn out like me. I was a little slice of Hell, always wandering off, and mastering the phrases "you're not the boss of me" and "well I said yes and I mean yes!" (in response to "I said no and I mean no!") at the precocious age of 2 1/2.

I think an important distinction needs to be made between spanking and beating your child.

In my mind spanking consists of an open hand on the kid's backside. Unless you're the Incredible Hulk there's very little chance of harming the child. In my opinion hitting a child anywhere else, or using an implement to strike them crosses the line.

But I deserved every one of the spankings I recieved as a child. My parents tried other means of dealing with me, such as sending me to my room, only to see the same behaviours continue and sometimes worsten.

I love my parents very much, and I know that they love my brother and I more than anything else. I suppose my support of their spanking me boils down to the fact that they only did it when they were out of options, they never hit us anywhere near hard enough to do more than redden our bottoms, and they always explained why we were being spanked so we could learn a real lesson not an abstract fear of tyranical parents. And they made it clear that we'd not only be doing ourselves a favour by avoiding spanking in the future, but them as well, because we could see that it affected them as well.

¤ ¤ credit: Erynn | 07.01.02 at 10:24 AM | link--this ¤ ¤

Out of the three of us, I was the only one that was ever spanked (I'm the oldest). I was a very well behaved child but a somewhat defiant teenager. My parents used to take stuff away and verbally threaten me. I don't recall either of my siblings ever being grounded or hit and they walk all over my parents. Go figure. (There's more to it than that, but I'll stop there.) :/

¤ ¤ credit: leandra | 07.01.02 at 10:38 AM | link--this ¤ ¤

Well I was spanked by my father when I was a child. I can understand an occasional spank on the butt when I child is to young to reason with or punish in another way. But as a general rule I 100% DISAGREE with spanking. My father was a big man with a bad temper & in many ways I think he was to young & immature to have children when I was born. I am not saying I was beat as a child, but a lot of times my father would forget how much bigger then me he was. Generally I had a pretty happy childhood, but when I do look back at it the things that stick out about my father were the times he did spank me. My father and I do not have a relationship at all now. Part of it is the way he treated me when I was younger (verbally, physically, etc). The other part I wont go into here.

In my humble and honest opinion the only thing a spanking does is teach a child that as an adult you are bigger and stronger then the child. Fear does not equal respect. There are many more ways to discipline a child (sorry it is the child psychology major in me coming out).

As for spanking in schools, HELL NO! I went to a private school where children were routinely spanked. It was very obvious that teachers took it way out of hand. Since we were not their children & just their students I think it was very easy for them to dismiss our screams of pain. Does anyone really think it is ok for a child to be smacked on their knuckles with a ruler until their knuckles bleed just because they were telling their friend how much they liked the cartoon that morning? (Don't get me started about how many times I went to the nurse with bloody knuckles). What right does a teacher have to embarrass a child in front of all their peers by bringing them to the front of the room & spanking them till they cried?

It sure does a lot for a childs' self esteem when they are made to cry in front of an entire class & then teased relentlessly about it by their classmates.

Instead of teaching Math, the teachers who did that taught me fear. Funny as a whole, my class always did worse in the classes where the teachers spanked as a punishment.

I am not a mother yet, but if anyone ever touches my child they will have to answer to me & my husband. I wont even let others touch my animals in a way I don't like!

Ok enough from me now...

¤ ¤ credit: Lynn | 07.01.02 at 01:01 PM | link--this ¤ ¤

Seems as if a lot of adults have said that spanking teaches kids that the "big old mean parent" can use more force than they can. But, from what I've also read, the ADULT CHILDREN that were spanked (read spanked, not beaten) are saying that they respect and respected their parents---then and now. What I have gathered here from all the answers is that spanking is ok, but beating is not. Also, that lessons were learned and not forgotten when spanked (again read spanked, not beaten) and these lessons resulted in a well behaved ADULT that respected that parent and loved them, and definately was not afraid of that parent---then or now. (Teenagers are a different story, I'm referring to adults only.)

Robyn, thank you for your kind words. I always tried to be fair, not spank when I was the one angry, not to spank you to embarrass you but to lovingly teach you, and then let you know I still loved you. A personal example here, my husband was beat as a child and teenager with anything his mother could pick up. I was spanked. He had a lot of anger issues to deal with as a youth and young adult; I had none, and not only love my parents but respected them too. That is the difference between spanking and beating.

This may make someone mad at me, but giving advice on this when you have no children, is like a nun giving birth control advice.....

¤ ¤ credit: mama | 07.01.02 at 01:44 PM | link--this ¤ ¤

I believe in spanking. However, like others have said it didn't take many for me to know I had to toe the line. I also used that philosphy in raising my daughter and believe her to be an fine young woman, none the worse for having had a spanking or two. However, I also got results by getting in her face on her level and whispering when she was doing "wrong". So I save the spanking for when that didn't work. As Wken said....each child is different and you have to find what works with that child. I don't believe in spanking in you are too emotional at the time. It is better to have a cooling off period before enacting a punishment.

¤ ¤ credit: sandy | 07.01.02 at 02:38 PM | link--this ¤ ¤

My parents would spank me when I deserved it and I am thankful that they did.

I was a stubborn little kid with a wild imagination so even if I was sitting with my nose in the corner it wasn't much of a punishment for me, so when mom & dad really needed to get the point across I got a spanking.

I didn't get them a lot and I was always warned before I got my pop on the butt. When I chose to continue with the bad behavior I knew a spanking would be coming my way. They were really calm about it, they told me why I was getting it (as if I didn't already know) and then I had to face my punishment. I mostly got this punishment for doing something dangerous (at 5 leaving the house for a walk without telling my parents) or for sassing. Mom & Dad had a reasons for spanking me and I think they were pretty good ones. I love them and appreciate the way they raised me so it really burns my butt to hear people compare spankings with beatings.

You cannot tell me that the spankings I got as a kid are the same as the random and unprovoked beatings my husband took from his drunk.

Andrea, I agree with you - Michael Fay deserved his caning.

¤ ¤ credit: Angela | 07.01.02 at 03:52 PM | link--this ¤ ¤

When discussing spanking with friends and acquaintances, it seems to me that in general people who were spanked (not beaten) as children tend to think it's ok to spank kids, and people who were not spanked as children tend to be opposed to it. Often, it seems that people say, "I was spanked as a kid, but I needed it. I was awful!" It never seems to occur to them that maybe the spankings made them defiant and that led to even worse behavior, but rather they seem to think they were basically horrible kids who couldn't understand anything but corporal punishment. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I was not spanked as a child, but I have spanked my daughter a few times. However, I've never been happy with myself afterwards. It has always seemed to me that my imagination failed me and I went with what was easiest for me rather than what was the best possible solution.

I think that my mother was exceptionally good at handling children, and her main thing was being very consistent. As a result, we never had to test to see whether a given rule (she didn't have a ton of them, just a reasonable set of rules) was in effect on any given day - it always was. This is, of course, tougher on the parents, as they must always be observant, carry through, get up off their rear ends and "assist" their small children in complying with their directions, etc., but I think it pays off in the long run. At any rate, I'm trying very hard to adjust my own parenting behavior to be more consistent and have better thought-out punishments than just spanking.

¤ ¤ credit: Elizabeth | 07.01.02 at 05:03 PM | link--this ¤ ¤

I feel that discipline (including spanking) should be administered in a consistent and loving manner. It should never be harsh or unjustified. It should never be adminstered while the parent is angry.

My parents spanked me, and I'm very grateful that they did. They demanded my respect and honor, and they got it. They still have it.

¤ ¤ credit: Donny | 07.01.02 at 05:09 PM | link--this ¤ ¤

Well, I was spanked as a child (on a few occasions, and not more than a hand on my tush). I seem to be okay these days, but honestly there's no way to tell if I'd have been better or worse if my parents had done things differently. I have issues with my step-dad but they're far larger spanking.

I agree with everyone who said spanking is distinct from beating. I'm a parent now, with a 5 yr-old boy and a 3 yr-old girl. They get the occasional "smack on the bum"

I also think it's *essential* that the child be old enough to understand cause and effect. Smacking an infant is pointless and cruel. This age varies from child to child. My son is mildly autistic, and he was 4 and a half before he really understood cause and effect. Spanking him before then would also have been pointless and cruel, because he would not have understood it. Now, he will get smacked if he deliberately disobeys, and he's usually warned about it beforehand -- we count to five, and he knows what's coming if he doesn't respond appropriately. It works fairly well for him, and it does *not* involve physical damage.

My daughter, otoh, is utterly unimpressed by spankings. She's been known to giggle and say "let's do that again!" So I've had to find different methods for her. It actually makes a bigger impression on her just to say "I am angry at you," or take away a toy. You have to find what works for a particular child.

But I am a firm believer that the parents are supposed to be in charge -- a family is a benevolent oligarchy. Parents are obligated to use their power to the benefit of their kids, but they are the ruling class and should act like it.

¤ ¤ credit: Pam | 07.01.02 at 05:29 PM | link--this ¤ ¤

Okay, here's my thoughts. Being spanked changes you. It changes the course of your life, and affects who you are. Now, this is not a brilliant statement, and not meant to be some grand philosophy.

Because, I believe, EVERYthing changes who you are. If you walk a fraction of a second faster one day on your way to the playground, even if nothing notable happens in either scenario, I believe you will be subtly different thirty years later than youy would have been. Of course, in many times this change is completely infintesimal, and may as well not exist. That's fine. but exist it does.

The problem is not that spanking messes up most kids. I would bet that the vast majority (let's make up a number for arguments sake. Say, 70%) come out pretty much as they would have. Not really any better, not really any worse. Close enough that we can call it negligable, and go on.

Another, let's say, 7%, are actually slightly better people because they were spanked. Maybe a few much better.

But then we have 23% who are worse off, some dramatically so. And they are the ones showing the agression, anti-social behavior, and abusive tendencies. Sure, it's not all. It's not even most. And you can anecdotally find people who are better off. But to me, the risk if screwing your kid up for life is far too high, and for what, so they settle down for an hour? This is why I find spanking completely unacceptable.

(And yes, I made up these numbers, and if you feel they are way off, hell, they might be, I dunno. They're just there so you can more easily grasp my argument and viewpoint. But to my unscientific opinion, the numbers seem about right. Clearly, a relatively small number of those spanked are messed up in any way, but the number is still far too big for me.)

¤ ¤ credit: John Kenneth Fisher | 07.01.02 at 05:49 PM | link--this ¤ ¤

Guesstimate percentages aside, having a dad walk out on me and not give a shit about me -- but be a loving father to his three other children in a new family -- effected me much more emotionally and long-term, than any loving form of discipline in my best interest that my mother or grandparents attempted. I would much rather receive a well-thought out punishment wrapped in love -- showing they CARED, were concerned for my well-being, and were doing the best they knew how to raise me right (in a Christian-like example following the Bible's guide in their case) -- than to be completely ignored and never loved. But that's just me.

Besides, how many kids would have been a slightly better person if their mother had stayed home with them instead of worked? Or if their mother had worked instead of stayed home and they had more money to live on? Every study is subjective -- especially when people get so used to tossing around percentages rather than looking at case-by-case examples. There's a flip-side to every coin. If parents try to raise their children the best they know how, and their children insist they come from a loving home and are happy for it -- who am I to judge. I'd much rather have a parent try than not...

¤ ¤ credit: robyn | 07.01.02 at 06:02 PM | link--this ¤ ¤

I grew up in Nigeria and I had a particularly happy childhood. My Mom was the disciplinarian and my Dad only got involved when you REALLY messed up.

My Mom used paddles and her hands but she was particularly careful about corporal punishment, never in anger and never enough to leave a mark, swelling, long time bruise or draw blood. And it was effective. She had exacting standards of behaviour that you couldn't pay me to violate ... and I was stubborn.

In effect, I'm one of those people who do say that they've undergone parental corporal punishment and are all the better for it. It's more a matter of how it is done to me. In Nigeria, it's not only your parents who can administer corporal punishment, but any adult members of your family and some of your parent's friends. But that's more a function of the person's closeness to your parents.For instance, my aunt paddled the sh*t out of her friend's son when she caught him stealing ... and his mother thanked her for it.

I honestly don't know of any Nigerian person who has not been physically chastised by his or her parents (and extended family) and tellingly, I've never yet met a Nigerian who was psychologically damaged because of it. Maybe it's a cultural thing ... the West considers it a major issue and a pathos has grown around it ... while non-Westerners consider it a trivial matter and so it's not such an emotional issue.

¤ ¤ credit: Adnan Alkali | 07.01.02 at 06:29 PM | link--this ¤ ¤

PS: I started getting spanked when I was six and I could understand exactly what it was I did wrong, even if I did not know WHY it was wrong. By the time I was eleven, I could basically figure it all by myself. At that point, my Mom told me that she would no longer raise her hand to me. She would treat me like a "big boy".

That meant she'd give me the "I'm SO disappointed in you" talk. I honestly wished she'd beat me instead of that. It's like having your heart ripped out, squeezed, then stomped on and returned to you. And what's worse is that you know you deserved it. And since my Dad only got involved when I did something REALLY bad, all he needed to do was just look at me and I'd want the world to end.

¤ ¤ credit: Adnan | 07.01.02 at 06:41 PM | link--this ¤ ¤

I am with you Robyn, that this sort of thing needs to be looked at on a case by case basis.

People confuse spanking with being beaten, and there is such a BIG difference! Just my opinion anyhoo...

And Adnan, I know what you mean. All my dad had to do was look at me. Ugh. And my mom always made me tell him what I had done wrong. She wouldn't do it. I would have to sit there and fess up. Then he would get all somber and quiet and just give me that look. It sucked.

¤ ¤ credit: jen | 07.01.02 at 08:06 PM | link--this ¤ ¤

Robyn, I do agree with what you said above.

And of course, of course, there is so much that can affect a child so much more, and this is nothing compared to it. I know that.

I know full well it isn't an absolute wrong, but that's in my head, not my heart. And I'm the first to admit that my own hangups, and my own issues, and yes, my own history, won't let me be objective here. Maybe if they could, I wouldn't get so worked up about this. I don't know

And I promise you, if it seemed for a minute I was one of those trying to criticize those who raised you, I cannot stress enough that that was not my intent. I know my 'absolute wrong' viewpoint implied that, but its mainly a fault of being to worked up to process and lay out my own thoughts at all clearly.

I just see this as, say, gun control. There are many legitimate reasons to own a gun, and in the hands of a responsible person, much good can come of it. In the hands of the wrong person, it can do immeasurable harm. Does that mean we should ban it completely?

Honestly.... I just don't know. I really don't.

I'll bow out of this discussion now, because, quite frankly, I think I'm just far too emotionally invested to be able to debate with an open mind (let alone debate with clarity instead of jumping crazily from point to point). I just wanted to clarify those few things before I did.

¤ ¤ credit: John Kenneth Fisher | 07.01.02 at 09:08 PM | link--this ¤ ¤

I always liked this saying from my dad,

When we got hit at school, the last thing we did was go home and cry to our parents cuz' we got hit a lot harder for having to be hit at school.

*sigh* The good ole days.

Spoken like a true public school teacher

¤ ¤ credit: Amytart | 07.03.02 at 12:02 AM | link--this ¤ ¤

I guess I got swatted in the unsual mild manner as a really young kid (I grew up in a rural Alberta town, and was reportedly an awful brat--at the age of four I sneaked into a bar and opened all the beer taps--so it seems likely). But I honestly don't remember, so I guess I wasn't scarred for life by it. When I got into school, my brattiness continued and when I'd do something particularly awful, my Dad finally resorted to using The Belt. This was damn rare and to be feared, because it was reserved for real naughty stuff (like getting brought home by the cops for throwing shopping carts over a cliff--no, really). And I can tell you RIGHT NOW, I clearly remember deciding not to do certain things because of the fear of those consequences. My problem was I was pretty bold as a kid (skydived at 13, hanglider license at 14, rock climbing at 16, raced motorcycles at 18) and worse, I was reasonably smart. A "time out" and wimpy "Daddy doesn't like it when you do bad things" PC reasoning would have met with contempt from me. On the other hand, while my sister could be a little devil, a firm talking to would always do the trick.
So...horses for courses. I'm grateful for my father in daring to take the final step on those rare occasions, and for very probably keeping me from getting into real, jail-time type trouble. And I just asked my wife of ten years to rate me on the Gershoff scale. I got 0 out of 10.

¤ ¤ credit: Toren | 07.04.02 at 05:54 PM | link--this ¤ ¤

I am definitely against spanking children, no matter how badly they behave. First of all, children behave badly because they are children. Their brains aren't fully developed, and we have to remember they aren't simply smaller versions of adults. They often don't know right from wrong. You have to teach it them, in a non violent manner. If you're spanking your 3 year old for being a brat, think about why they're being a brat. They've been alive 3 years, all under your care! Spanking, hitting, or beating your children is all some kind of power trip. If your friend is being a bitch, do you whip out your belt and start hitting her on the ass? Probably not. Do you hit your grandparents with wooden spoons when they nag you? No. So why is it ok to hit a tiny child when they misbehave?

¤ ¤ credit: Diana | 07.14.02 at 07:55 PM | link--this ¤ ¤