Posted: 02.20.2003 Hit the road Jack Jake...and don't you come back no more
Just a tiny little word of warning. After the week I've had, my tolerance level is about this |←→| wide.
So in case you think you have a right to come over here spewing all the usual useless bullshit you normally do, when it's only purpose is to stir things up, put groups of people down, and piss people off -- myself included -- well, you've got another thing coming. You're really not all that welcome here. Can we just get that crystal?
I haven't banned you yet because you haven't personally attacked me or my friends -- and that's really the only way to have that honor bestowed upon you. And I don't normally make it a policy of "outing" borderline-comment flamers (I swear, no pun intended) like this on my main page. But you've crossed one too many lines, and it all started with your asinine comments here. So if you were to, say like, just accidentally lose my URL, I swear on all that's holy I will not cry any sort of crocodile tears for you when and if that magical event occurs. Good for you? Mmmm 'k, great. Thnx. - The Management
well, I'd have to say that doesn't exactly sit well with me at this point in time -- especially when he comes back around for more. And that's all he ever comes back for -- to start more. Well not this week...
And I'd hardly call your still-beating heart being ripped out and run over by a Mack truck and then soaked in hydrochloric acid until it completely disintegrated a "flesh wound", but that's just me. Your mileage may vary.
How one can compare wisdom teeth to infertility is beyond me! And I dont know anyone that went on welfare and had to drop out of college because they had to pay for thier own wisdom teeth to be extracted. It might be 'expensive' but it ain't that expensive! Lets see... theres credit cards and most dentists I have used will let you make payments if you need to. Maybe his friend should forego the purchasing of the crack for a little while until the bills are paid off. Anyway I digress, dont even get me started on his breast cancer/heart disease debate. I think he just needs a good kick in the balls.
¤ ¤ credit: jay | 02.20.03 at 09:28 PM | link--this ¤ ¤
Hey CybrPUNK,
Dont go away mad, just go away, or I hope you have a high pain threshold - LMAO
No man can ever know all that a miscarriage involves. My wife tried to explain it to me over 15 years ago and I still don't completely understand it. Comparing wisdom teeth (odd, don't you think - WISDOM teeth) to infertility would be like comparing a shaving a beard to cutting your own balls off.
Ugh. Having read all the posts with his comments in them, all he seems to "contribute" to any of the conversations going on is whining because no one notices his problems. Oy vey!
Oh I'd forgotten about h-i-m and t-h-a-t comment. Jake, do yourself a favour and drift off into the black hole of the web and leave Robyn alone. There's plenty of other people to annoy if that's how you get your thrills. Personally I would have just banned your arse by now. She's a nice lady, treat her like one.
*HUGS* I'm sorry that you haven't banned him yet. I would have after the first one! I swear, maybe someone should give him a shot of nice, yeah, right in the...
While I know it's probably going to net me nothing but grief, I'm going to take it upon myself to play devil's advocate for Jake here. I ask only that you please read what I have to say before commenting on it.
First, Robyn, allow me to express my deepest sympathies over your loss. I can't pretend to know what you're going through, but you'd be in my prayers if I was the praying type.
That said, I will state the following: I know Jake. Jake's a good guy. A little rough around the edges, a few problems with articulating his thoughts in a sensitive manner, maybe, but a good guy overall. And I cannot help but think that you took his comments at least the ones you linked to a little too seriously, and more than a little too personally.
I don't believe he meant to knock you or anyone who suffers from infertility, nor was he comparing infertility to wisdom teeth. I think he was instead expressing his disgust at the fact that, in a world where millions do not have their basic needs met, where hundreds of thousands of children will grow up without parents or a loving family, and where global population is expected to more than double over the next 50 years, people would donate money to a couple seeking fertility treatments so that more people could be brought into the world. His is not an entirely unreasonable reaction; there are many people out there who espouse the view that to add even one more person to the global population while there are children left uncared for is an act of obscene selfishness. He is not one of them.
As for the breast cancer thing, do you really believe he intended to put down those afflicted with this horrible disease? He was wondering aloud why prostate cancer and heart disease aren't afforded similar attention when they're just as deadly. Is this worthy of a threat to ban him?
I'm puzzled by the importance you place on the John Cusack comment. So he heard wrong about who Cusack was playing. So what? Who cares? Ditto for the dissidents comment; so he's ill-informed on this particular case. Is that really a good reason to rake him over the coals? His points on the larger issue, while out of place, are still valid. He's not trying to stir anyone up. He's voicing an opinion. Is his tendency toward argument really such a sin? If anything, all I've seen is posts where he tries to argue a point, and then you dismiss his arguments and/or insult him personally. I haven't seen him do the same to you.
Mostly, though, what gets to me is the fact that poor cybrpunk tried to be supportive, in his way, and tell you that Jake's comments aren't worth shit, and he got ripped a new asshole for his trouble. I can only imagine what you people will do to me, now. Go on, threaten to kick me in the nuts. Tell me I'm an asshole who's not worth the skin that's holding in his organs. Ban me if you want to. At least I'll be going down for a friend.
"There is a special place in hell reserved for most of the people listed in this article. Especially Karyn and the couple who wants a kid."
"So have we started arresting political disadents. I wonder how long before Arab Americans are offered "interment camps for their own protection" and liberal sympathizes have to wear a yellow L on their clothes."
"I don't really understand the national obsession on breast cancer. Heart disease kills more women than breast cancer and prostate cancer has a higher death rate and almost as high numbers of occurrences. My grandmother is a breast cancer survivor and my stepfather is dying of prostate cancer. But one gets the limelight and one does not. I mean where is the national wide major PSA about getting tested for prostate cancer. Smoking and a high fat diet causing heart disease kills more women than breast cancer but you don't see the big fundraisers for that."
Okay, Sebastian. So maybe he is a nice person. However, Jake isn't really doing a stellar job showing it here. The quotes above are the FIRST POSTS he's written in different threads. Does this sound like a person you'd like to get to know? His "rough around the edges" must run pretty deep, because if there is a soft spot, it's hard to see. If he really is concerned about the thousands of children, then yes, this does make him a good person in that respect. But to belittle Todd and Robyn's PERSONAL want to have their own biological child is BEYOND rude. There is NOTHING wrong with wanting your own flesh and blood. They don't plan on having kids to abuse them as these thousands of children that Jake speaks of. They will be loving and productive parents, producing great citizens of this society. And if a couple has 2 children, they are not overpopulating the planet, they are mearly replacing THEMSELVES. So Jakes attacks, and yes, these are ATTACKS. Saying "There is a special place in hell reserved" for them just because they are desparate for a baby is cutthroat.
As for Cyberpunk, I think that he didn't realize how badly his comment hurt Robyn. She has just lost the pregnancy that she was told she'd never even have. The line "It's just a fleshwound" comes from a rather funny scene from "Monty Python and The Holy Grail", and I do believe that it was meant to get a laugh and put down Jake's ability to belittle Robyn, however, it backfired horribly. When a woman is told that she cannot bear children, it's like losing everything that MAKES you a woman. There is a line in Tori Amos' "Spark" that pretty much is the Cliff Notes for miscarriages:
"She's convinced she could hold back a glacier,
But she couldn't keep Baby alive.
Doubting if there's a woman in there somewhere...here."
A woman can be a powerful creature. But if you take away the one thing that makes her womanly (the ability to have children), then she feels like a shell of nothingness. To say that it's "just a fleshwound" only adds salt to that wound that is deeper than just flesh.
Okay, I'm getting off my soapbox here. I just had to add my $0.02.
BTW, Mister Mittens, you're One F*cking Hilarious Pussy! Can I steal your silly pictures that you've posted on different threads? I'm still wiping away tears of laughter...
Attacks? Hardly. I see absolutely nothing that could be construed as an attack by any reasonable person in the quotes you offered. Maybe the second doesn't jibe with your politics (he's being sarcastic, by the way. Making a sad little joke. Don't know if you caught that), and maybe the third strikes you as insensitive, but these are separate issues entirely. Cripes, if you think these are attacks, I'd hate to see what you'd do if someone were to assail your character in a public forum like this.
In the case of the first quote - and it seems I have to repeat myself here - Jake was referring to PEOPLE IN AN ARTICLE WHO WERE SOLICITING CONTRIBUTIONS TO PAY FOR THEIR FERTILITY TREATMENTS. Now, I could be wrong, but I don't think this was referring to Todd and Robyn. To use a crude metaphor, it's like if I start complaining about somebody soliciting donations online to help them buy a house, and someone nearby who is trying desperately to save money to buy a house takes deep offense at this. There's no PERSONAL, there's no ATTACK. There's just someone GETTING OFFENDED AT SOMETHING THAT WASN'T DIRECTED AT THEM.
NOWHERE does Jake attempt to belittle Robyn's desire to have her own child. NOWHERE does he say she shouldn't. He complains - very specifically, I might add - about one couple in an article who are soliciting donations to help pay for their fertility treatments. The problem is not the fertility treatments. The problem is that they're asking strangers to pay for them. (Jake really, really hates begging sites, you see.) I'm afraid I don't see how this is a personal attack against Robyn, or how it even relates to her.
And since we're already on a roll with interpreting people's comments in the worst possible way, Kathryn, I would like to offer the following for your consideration:
"But if you take away the one thing that makes her womanly (the ability to have children), then she feels like a shell of nothingness."
Are you trying to insinuate, then, that a woman's only purpose in life is to bear children? That without said purpose, she begins to question the validity of her own existence? My girlfriend would stomp me into a greasy spot, steal all my credit cards and burn my house down if I were to say what you just said, and rightly so. It belies a ridiculously sexist and antiquated viewpoint.
However, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that this isn't what you meant at all. But I will hold it up as an example of how comments on sensitive issues can be grossly misinterpreted.
Person Who Refers to Herself as Vegetable Furniture,
I'm going to throw a small curveball here and ask you, politely, to please stop sucking.
Seriously. I'd very much appreciate it. If you feel you need any explanation, please feel free to email, but for now, please just stop sucking. No nasty intentions or alterior motives on my part, rest assured.
Sebastian,
While I might agree with you that any single comment Jake has ever posted here would not be worthy of banishment, the fact that almost EVERY single time he comments, his word contain some kind of backhanded stab at the post that Robyn has made. I seriouosly can not remember one time that Jake has said he supports or agrees with her. He could have easily said "Good job on the boobie-thon. I wish someone would do something like that for prostate cancer." If he had done that, many here would have replied "You're right, someone should". Instead he turned it into a arguement over which cause was more worthy.
It's not a matter of disagreeing with her. I, and others, disagree with her all the time, but we can do it without making biting comments that have no purpose but to hurt. If Jake can't respect her that much, he needs to find a new blog to read.
And after what her and Todd have been through recently, if you seriously think it's a good time to spar with her over anything, you need to rethink your social skills.
After linking back to Jake's comments, I have to agree, yeah, he's a raving idiot. I was also offended, however, that Gnome-Girl decided that because he was a "fucktard" he couldn't be gay, he must be straight. Personally, I am:
1. Straight
2. Not a fucktard
3. Appalled by Jake's comments
4. Insulted
I'm also incredibly happily married with a woman I love and respect, for what that's worth.
Ignoring the stupidity that is Jake for the moment (honestly, I think it's pretty stupid to go griping about anyone's infertility on a site where the owner is incredibly upset about her own and has just had a miscarriage. Not to mention tactless), I have to agree with Sebastian on one thing.
Why on earth do several of you that read this site seem to feel utterly worthless and unwomanly (at least, that is the impression that I've gotten from reading comments here) if you can't have your own biological baby? I find that incredibly sad that you think your entire worth as a person and as a woman boils down to whether or not you can reproduce. Yes, it sucks if all you want in the world is your own baby, and I'd hand any of you my uterus for that if I could. But having a baby isn't all that you are and all that you are good for in the world. I find it heartbreaking that some of you seem to believe that. A woman doesn't only exist to birth babies, just as men don't only exist to fertilize. Your entire womanhood should not depend on that alone to make you feel good about yourself. We don't live in the Republic of Gilead here.
Okay, that said, go ahead and rip me to shreds. I'm sure I deserve it for feeling that way and not understanding because I'm not in the exact same situation. I don't know why I'm stupid enough to post this in the first place.
I really don't want to spar with Robyn, Bill, I just want to stick up for my friend. You lot are a different matter entirely, however, and I will happily match wits with any takers.
You, for example: Seriously, why should Jake have said anything supportive vis-a-vis the aforementioned posts? He's not her friend. He's a member of the public who's visiting her blog. Robyn has left her blog comments open to members of the public instead of requiring registration, and as such it should come as no surprise when people post comments that are less than supportive. Public forums are not love-fests, and it is unreasonable to demand that they should be. They are a means of disseminating ideas, and if people don't like those ideas, then they'll usually say so. Compliments don't make blogs interesting. Arguments do. You take the bad with the good, and sometimes you'll have regular posters who are always playing devil's advocate about everything. Such is life in the blog lane.
Anyway, I digress. I see nothing particularly biting or hurtful about the things Jake has said thus far; that style is how he ALWAYS writes about EVERYTHING. Check 8bitjoystick.com sometime, you'll see what I mean. If anything, they strike me as much more gentle than, say, some of the vitriol they're spewing over there right now as a result of this post.
I would have banned that dumbass a long time ago Robyn. You're a better person than I. I am sitting here reading all of this and just shaking my head. Do people have no sensitivity or compassion? Jake, you need to get a life and go find someone else's blog to spew your crap on. There's oh so much more I could say on this, but for Robyn's sake I'll keep it to myself. No use throwing more gas on the fire. Robyn, hang in there girl!
"In the case of the first quote - and it seems I have to repeat myself here - Jake was referring to PEOPLE IN AN ARTICLE WHO WERE SOLICITING CONTRIBUTIONS TO PAY FOR THEIR FERTILITY TREATMENTS. Now, I could be wrong, but I don't think this was referring to Todd and Robyn."
Then why did he type that HERE, right after it had been explained about Todd & Robyn's situation? I guess that would be Mr. "A little rough around the edges, a few problems with articulating his thoughts in a sensitive manner, maybe, but a good guy overall."'s idea of comfort?
Oh, THAT was sarcasm, BTW.
"I'm afraid I don't see how this is a personal attack against Robyn, or how it even relates to her."
I guess you're new here, huh?
"And since we're already on a roll with interpreting people's comments in the worst possible way, Kathryn, I would like to offer the following for your consideration:
"But if you take away the one thing that makes her womanly (the ability to have children), then she feels like a shell of nothingness.""
Having children is the MAIN feature that separates men from women. It is NOT the ONLY. I will take my deserved flames for that one, because I worded that one quite badly. But when you're a woman, and you want to have a baby, and you can't, well, it's going to affect your feelings of femininity more than just a tad. However, it by no means, makes you any less of a woman. It just feels like it does. I personally apologize to all who have taken offense for that comment. I'M SO SORRY.
"Are you trying to insinuate, then, that a woman's only purpose in life is to bear children? That without said purpose, she begins to question the validity of her own existence? My girlfriend would stomp me into a greasy spot, steal all my credit cards and burn my house down if I were to say what you just said, and rightly so. It belies a ridiculously sexist and antiquated viewpoint. "
NO, I'm not. Like I said, that was worded badly, and I apologize.
"However, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that this isn't what you meant at all. But I will hold it up as an example of how comments on sensitive issues can be grossly misinterpreted."
That is fine, and I appreciate that. I never meant to slam you, Sebastian. And I'm glad that you posted. I respect the fact that you are sticking up for your friend. But please see it from our point of view: Jake has done nothing but throw rocks at a wasps nest here. I'm sure people offer different viewpoints, flame and get flamed, and this is what makes us great; many different views of different situations. But Robyn and Todd have just had a major tradgedy happen to them. Jake's comments, sarcastic or not, have hurt people, and all ANY of his posts seem to do is upset. THAT is NOT public opinion differing. He's taking stabs. If it's only because he's explaining things in a sharp manner, then this isn't really the place for it. Robyn welcomes anyone here, and yes, it's public. That doesn't mean that Jake has to be so abrasive. And as for you last comment in you first paragraph:
"Cripes, if you think these are attacks, I'd hate to see what you'd do if someone were to assail your character in a public forum like this. "
I try to keep an honest opinion, however, I don't make it a point to step on toes. I wasn't even stepping on yours as you defended Jake. If someone were to assail my character, then I know that that person really didn't know me, and would rather believe their own misconceptions about me. That is a person whom I don't think I'd want to get to know. It's not saying that everyone HAS to like me, but just like everyone else, I'd rather stay away from those who would verbally assult me. This is why I admit that my comments above were out of line, and I'm sorry for them. However, I don't see Jake admitting that he hurt Robyn and apologizing anywhere. I guess that is why I'm angry with him.
You, Sebastian, I will admit, I'm not crazy about right now. But I will also admit that I admire you for standing up for what you believe in, because you didn't put anyone down in the process. That takes guts, and I hope it's something that you never lose. So please respect my standing up for Robyn.
"Yes, it sucks if all you want in the world is your own baby" Jennifer? are you infertile? Because unless you are, I think you are way out of line making those kinds of insensitive comments about the issue which has torn apart so many lives and hurt people so deeply. People like Robyn who is still grieving the loss of 2 babies she was told she could never concieve.
If you are not infertile, then I am offended you would tell any woman who IS how they should feel because you and I have NO IDEA what it feels like!!!!! Think about that next time you want to comment on the issue.
Public forum or not, Why do people take it upon their rude selfs to post obnoxious things on other people's sites? There is a difference in posting a seperate opinion, and being a freaking rude jerk, but this goes well beyond all that and we all know it. I'm sorry Robyn is going through this bullshit (on the site) right now -- the last thing she needs (especially with the heartache she is going through right now) is a recess fight. I wish I had the authority to blow the teacher's whistle. Time to move on folks. This is not 2nd grade and Robyn did not get the big piece of pie. This is her life, she is hurting, and if you having nothing nice or supportive to say, click the fucking X and be on your way.
Why on earth do several of you that read this site seem to feel utterly worthless and unwomanly (at least, that is the impression that I've gotten from reading comments here) if you can't have your own biological baby?
Jennifer -- the only thing my husband has ever asked for in our marriage (not a second bread-winner, not a career woman wife, not a healthy partner) is for his own biological child. The only thing. Turns out, I can't give him one. Does he fault me for that? No. Does he love me any less? No. Is he going to leave me because of it? Hell no.
But becoming a wife and a mother is something I have wanted my whole life. You know when they would do those "what do you want to do when you grow up" essays in junior high? I wanted to be a mother and a Secret Service agent. In that order.
I can understand not being the agent now. Wasn't meant to be. But being a mother was. It's part of who I am. And when you're not allowed by nature to be a part of who you are, it's a pain and incomprehension I wouldn't wish on anyone who failed to understand it.
However, there is such a thing as tact and good manners which is also required for me, and my readers, to play nicely right back -- neither quality of which Jake seems to possess.
First, let me clarify for anyone who is still in doubt on the issue: I am NOT KNOCKING ROBYN. I sympathize deeply with her situation, and regret if anything I have said here has caused her further distress. I am, as I have said, only trying to stand up for a friend.
Now that that's out of the way: Well said, Kathryn. You're not crazy about me? That's fine. I didn't post here to make friends. You do, however, have my respect; not that you need it, but you have it.
I think the thing that needs to be taken into consideration about Jake's comments is their timeliness; the infertility comments were made in December. If he had made them post-2/14, rest assured I would be in my car right now, driving to Seattle to personally smack the shit out of him. As it is, his comments were perhaps stupid and uncalled-for, but not malicious. Bringing them up now is like taking something negative someone said about the World Trade Center before 9/11/01 and throwing it in their face after the fact.
"Then why did he type that HERE, right after it had been explained about Todd & Robyn's situation?"
Simple: He spoke without thinking. Nasty coincidence. While he certainly doesn't seem to have a lot of warm, fuzzy feelings for Robyn right now, thanks in large part to this post, I can't imagine him intentionally taking a swipe over something like infertility. It's just not his style.
Granted, it would be awfully nice if he'd offer some sort of explanation himself other than "kiss my grits," but that's up to him.
The sarcasm comment came because I am, in all honesty, confused as to why the "dissidents" post is a subject of such contention. Is it the sarcasm? Is it the liberal sentiment? Was it the mistaken assumption that the statement should be taken at face value? Or is it simply the fact that it had little to do with the post it was in response to? Maybe you can explain it to me.
And those were just the quick keyword-searches. There have been more. It's not like it's a new topic around these parts. And the 12.12 comments were made just days after an infertility post.
I think the key is another phrase from Jake's relevant post on his own site: "Any publicity is good publicity." Some people will do almost anything to stir the pot and generate traffic, and Jake appears to be one of them. He'd be well advised to hold onto the friends he's got; he's sure as hell not making any new ones.
¤ ¤ credit: Jon | 02.21.03 at 02:40 PM | link--this ¤ ¤
Well then I'm so glad my personal pain can help pump up his stats counter. It wasn't all in vain after all... I guess I forgot the important things in life. Stupid me.
Sebastian, you are too nice of a person to be standing up for Jake. He doesn't deserve a friend who will stand up for him while he's nowhere to be found. You didn't even make these comments, and you're defending the guy who said them because he's your friend. He must be something special for you. However, he'll get no respect here until an apology is issued, and even then, it's doubtful. I'm sorry to say that you are fighting a losing battle here. Don't try to explain away his behavior. If this is "just not his stlye" like you say, then he should be able to explain it himself. If Jake is really a great guy, then 1) He wouldn't have said what he did in the way he did and 2) You wouldn't have to be taking all of this heat for him. Or, even possibly 3) Something has happened to HIM, and he's just sniping at the world right now. Either way, this is something that he has to deal with on his own, but you can be classified as a 'good guy' for trying to stick up for him. However, as I said, not here. Not after all that has happened.
Our thoughts here should be for Robyn and Todd, after all, this IS their site. Robyn, I'm sorry for any sparks I've started. It wasn't my intention. All I want right now is for you to move on, and I feel like I've somehow fucked up. I'm sorry. I want you to know that you are loved. *HUG*
I apologize to everyone for taking up as much space as I have. I do tend to run on, so I'll go now.
And with that Jake, welcome to my banlist. I have a real life right now. I'm not going to get sucked into your petty hit-count flame war. Buh bye. Lovely parting gifts are at the door...don't let it hit you on the way out...
See, here's what I don't get...if you don't like the content of a particular site (as evidenced by Jake's continual comments to the adverse of whatever is being posted) WHY DO YOU COME BACK? The majority of us who visit Robyn's site do so because we enjoy the content she chooses to put up each day. That doesn't mean we always agree with it 100%, but when we don't, either we address that in an intelligent manner, or we ignore it. Pretty simple. Additionally, I think it's a normal human reaction to become personally involved in what you're reading every day. I know of several of us, who upon hearing about Robyn's pregnancy, and subsequent loss of the babies, cried, felt helpless, wanted to do whatever we could, and now feel very protective of Robyn because of that. So you know what Sebastian...you're standing up for your friend. I'm standing up for mine. Robyn DOES NOT NEED JAKE'S SHIT. There's NO REASON for him to bring it here. He doesn't add ANYTHING to the discussion other than grief and heartburn. So, be a nice guy, and take it elsewhere.
Just a quick admin note. I'm not letting this turn into "he said...she said" or the flame war others seem to want so desperately to witness.
I think all the opinions on both sides have been stated by this point (both here and elsewhere), and there's no purpose in hashing and rehashing everything.
It's over. Done with. Jake met his goal of notoriety and got himself banned. Time to move on. I have a real life to work through, and I'm not about to get mired down in the pettiness of an online one right now.
Thanks to everyone who's commented/contributed above. Healthy debate, and coming to the defense of your friends, is good. Creating a train-wreck for others to gawk at by allowing the comments to continue.....is not.
-this
